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	<title>Center for a Stateless Society &#187; just war</title>
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		<title>Questioning Murray Rothbard on the Civil War and Just War</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/34516</link>
		<comments>http://c4ss.org/content/34516#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2015 00:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natasha Petrova]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Life, Love And Liberty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stigmergy - C4SS Blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[American Revolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[anti-war]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civil war]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[just war]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lysander Spooner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Murray N. Rothbard]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[war]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Murray Rothbard once opined that there were only two &#8220;just wars&#8221; in all of American history. The wars in question were the American Revolutionary War and the secessionist war of the Confederate States during the American Civil War. Murray&#8217;s reasoning for including, at least, the war of the Confederacy is dubious. To quote his take...]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murray Rothbard once <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/whats-a-just-war/">opined</a> that there were only two &#8220;just wars&#8221; in all of American history. The wars in question were the American Revolutionary War and the secessionist war of the Confederate States during the American Civil War.</p>
<p>Murray&#8217;s reasoning for including, at least, the war of the Confederacy is dubious. To quote his take on what constitutes a just war:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">My own view of war can be put simply: a just war exists when a people tries to ward off the threat of coercive domination by another people, or to overthrow an already-existing domination. A war is unjust, on the other hand, when a people try to impose domination on another people, or try to retain an already existing coercive rule over them.</p>
<p>This viewpoint of Rothbard is not the best take on just war. Rothbard uses the collectivist concept of a people rather than the autonomous individual. This can easily lead to a nationalistic defense of state sovereignty as opposed to a radical defense of individual rights. This is not to deny that human beings exist in a social context. It simply acknowledges that consent is ultimately necessary on an individual level.</p>
<p>Even if one agrees with this viewpoint, it doesn&#8217;t legitimize the South&#8217;s war. The South was trying to preserve coercive domination over black people. And the Confederacy hypocritically denied slaves the same right of secession that the Confederate government was claiming in relation to the Union. The negative libertarian rights and freedoms of the slaves were not acknowledged by the Confederate state.</p>
<p>There is simply no way of reconciling radical libertarian principle with a defense of the so called Southern War of Independence. This doesn&#8217;t mean the Union was perfect or perfectly embodied libertarian ideals either. To quote Roderick Long:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">When libertarians on one side point out that the Union centralised power, violated civil liberties, committed vicious war crimes, was hypocritical on secession, ignored avenues for peaceful emancipation, and cared more about tariffs and nationalism than about ending slavery, I agree and applaud; but they lose me when they start calling the Civil War the “Second War of American Independence” and portray the Confederates as freedom fighters.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">Equivalently, when libertarians on the other side point out that the preservation and extension of slavery was central to the South’s motivations for secession (as seems clear from what secessionists said at the time of secession, as opposed to what they said in their memoirs years later), and that the Confederacy was just as bloated and oppressive a centralized state as the Union, equally hypocritical on secession and equally invasive of civil liberties, once more I agree and applaud. (As I like to say, the Confederacy was just another failed government program.) But they too lose me, when they start calling Lincoln a great libertarian and the consolidation of federal power a victory for liberty.</p>
<p>The proper position to take is one of opposition to both states alike and support for anarchistic abolitionism of the <a href="http://lysanderspooner.org/node/38">Lysander Spooner</a> variety.</p>
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		<title>The Weekly Libertarian Leftist And Chess Review 41</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/29242</link>
		<comments>http://c4ss.org/content/29242#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2014 23:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natasha Petrova]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Life, Love And Liberty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stigmergy - C4SS Blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Weekly Libertarian Leftist Review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alexey Shirov]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[American flag]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[artificial states]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atomic bomb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[baptists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[birth control]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bootleggers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[border]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Boris Gelfand]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[censorship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christians]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civil libertarians]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conflict]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[government]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[government power]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Greater Middle East]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[immigrant children]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[intervention]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Iraq]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ISIS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[isolationism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jane Cobden]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[just war]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Li Chao]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[libertarian foreign policy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[libertarianism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[makers and takers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[myth making]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[neocons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[non-aggression principle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NSA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[saudi arabia]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Tonkin]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[War on Drugs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Watergate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Yifan Hou]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=29242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin Carson discusses why distrust in government is a good thing. Kevin Carson discusses how the makers and takers aren&#8217;t who you think. Jacob G. Hornberger discusses the War on Drugs, intervention, and immigrant children. Patrick Cockburn discusses the Saudi complicity in the rise of ISIS. Gina Luttrell discusses bootleggers, baptists, and birth control. Justin...]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://c4ss.org/content/29187">Kevin Carson discusses why distrust in government is a good thing.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://c4ss.org/content/29214">Kevin Carson discusses how the makers and takers aren&#8217;t who you think.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://fff.org/2014/07/11/drug-war-intervention-and-immigrant-children/">Jacob G. Hornberger discusses the War on Drugs, intervention, and immigrant children.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/15/saudi-complicity-in-the-rise-of-isis/">Patrick Cockburn discusses the Saudi complicity in the rise of ISIS.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://thoughtsonliberty.com/bootleggers-baptists-and-birth-control">Gina Luttrell discusses bootleggers, baptists, and birth control.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/15/neocons-go-undercover/">Justin Raimondo discusses how neocons are going undercover.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://original.antiwar.com/eland/2014/07/14/resolving-conflict-in-artificial-states/">Ivan Eland discusses resolving conflict in artificial states.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/07/bionic-mosquito/no-us-war-has-been-just/">Bionic Mosquito discusses the criteria for a just war.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://ericpetersautos.com/2014/07/16/gorillas-humans-nap/">Eric Peters discusses the non-aggression principle.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/16/isis-in-syria/">Patrick Cockburn discusses ISIS in Syria.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/16/does-uncle-sam-have-a-god-complex/">Norman Solomon discusses the god complex of Uncle Sam.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/35478/Wendy-McElroy-Voluntaryist-Anthropology/">Wendy McElroy discusses voluntaryist anthropology.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/18/that-old-isolationist-smear/">Sheldon Richman discusses the smear of isolationism.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://original.antiwar.com/lucy/2014/07/17/its-not-about-fighting-terror-its-about-having-power/">Lucy Steigerwald discusses how government power is about having power rather than catching terrorists.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/19/lets-try-a-libertarian-foreign-policy">Nick Gillespie discusses a libertarian foreign policy. </a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/17/miron-a-case-for-the-libertarian/#ixzz37uS594ci">Jeffrey Miron discusses libertarianism.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://magazine.nd.edu/news/49015/">Andrew Bacevich discusses the lessons from America&#8217;s war for the Greater Middle East.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/22/the-new-meaning-of-isolationism/">Justin Raimondo discusses the new meaning of isolationism.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/23/time-runs-out-for-christian-iraq/">Patrick Cockburn discusses Christians in Iraq.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/tgif-jane-cobden-carrying-on-her-fathers-work/">Sheldon Richman discusses Jane Cobden.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://fff.org/2014/07/24/the-practicality-of-libertarianism/">Jacob G. Hornberger discusses the practicality of libertarianism.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/borderlands-whats-happening-to-america/">Sheldon Richman discusses the politics of the border.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/03/i-cant-help-but-be-a-libertarian">Sheldon Richman discusses why he can&#8217;t help being a libertarian.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/censorship-and-myth-making-about-hiroshima-and-the-bomb/">John LaForge discusses censorship and myth-making surrounding the atomic bomb.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/tonkin-and-watergate/">Ron Jacobs discusses Tonkin and Watergate.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/isis-is-winning-the-war-on-two-fronts/">Patrick Cockburn discusses how ISIS is winning on two fronts.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/the-american-flag-and-its-followers/">James Rothenberg discusses the American flags and its followers.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/08/01/did-aclu-and-eff-just-help-the-nsa-get-inside-your-smart-phone/">Empty Wheel discusses whether civil libertarians are falling for faux NSA reform.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1048288">Alexey Shirov beats Boris Gelfand.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1634509">Yifan Hou beats Li Chao.</a></p>
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		<title>A Qualified Defense Of Desertion</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/28005</link>
		<comments>http://c4ss.org/content/28005#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2014 23:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natasha Petrova]]></dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Life, Love And Liberty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stigmergy - C4SS Blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[desertion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[indentured servitude]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[just war]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[libertarian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pro-war conservative]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[slavery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[unjust war]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Desertion is often treated as equivalent to cowardice, treason, and other such things generally considered distasteful. As any anarchist could tell you, treason only makes sense if you feel some kind of loyalty to the nation-state or government or state you&#8217;re born into or under. This left-wing market anarchist most certainly doesn&#8217;t. As for cowardice,...]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desertion is often treated as equivalent to cowardice, treason, and other such things generally considered distasteful. As any anarchist could tell you, treason only makes sense if you feel some kind of loyalty to the nation-state or government or state you&#8217;re born into or under. This left-wing market anarchist most certainly doesn&#8217;t. As for cowardice, it takes quite a bit of courage to walk away from a cause considered popular or just by the vast majority of people. You&#8217;re truly on your own or with few allies in that scenario.</p>
<p>Desertion is an eminently libertarian approach to dealing with an unjust war as a soldier. It would seem that many pro-war conservatives think an individual should continue fighting and killing people unjustly rather than walk away from the battlefield. This is akin to mindlessly obeying orders and committing war crimes in the process. The libertarian and especially the anarchist preferably knows better.</p>
<p>That still leaves the question of desertion from a just war unanswered. It may be morally reprehensible to do so, but that doesn&#8217;t mean the behavior should be criminalized. The criminalization of desertion under any circumstances amounts to involuntary servitude. Desertion is another term for quitting your job. Something that the law recognizes in cases of non-military work. No private employer could rightfully conscript you based on the enforcement of a contract alienating your will. The same is preferable in the case of government employment.</p>
<p>Some might object that desertion endangers the other participants in a war, because the fighting strength of the army from which a person is deserting will go down. In the case of an unjust war, this objection has little power to persuade. The soldiers engaged in an illegitimate war don&#8217;t have their rights violated by someone refusing to assist them in mass murder. In fact, it is unfortunately true that the lessening of the fighting strength of said army would be a plus. It would mean less people die unjustly. As for the case of desertion in a just conflict, it may be morally wrong, but it&#8217;s no legal duty. The notion of a legal duty to serve as part of a military force engenders indentured servitude at best and slavery at worst. No person has an unconditional acontextual legal obligation to help fellow soldiers in even the context of a just war. Let’s work towards ending imperialist wars of aggression, so no one has to decide whether to desert as a matter of justice ever again.</p>
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