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	<title>Comments on: The Myth Of Personal Choice &amp; Individual Responsibility In America Today</title>
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	<description>building public awareness of left-wing market anarchism</description>
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		<title>By: badweather</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155364</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[badweather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[High praise indeed! 
 
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>High praise indeed! </p>
<p>Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! </p>
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		<title>By: badweather</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155363</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[badweather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Null Void! 
 
I&#039;d certainly be interested in hearing about the details that you disagree with. I&#039;m not so completely sure of my own perspective that I can&#039;t learn or perhaps correct my view upon certain specifics... and perhaps it is this language of liberation, or the anthropology of anarchism that will benefit from that further conversation...  
 
These differences of opinion could be the area&#039;s that are essentially as yet unwritten, or as yet un-co-opted by the west since I&#039;ve argued that in fact this body of knowledge has already been &quot;written&quot; by indigenous people, they&#039;ve just been forgotten or ignored by the west up to this point. 
 
 
My recent post &lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/qcmississippimud/kvMf/~3/1ic34p3_phE/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The three features of a revolutionary program that Occupy and its descendents MUST engage&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Null Void! </p>
<p>I&#039;d certainly be interested in hearing about the details that you disagree with. I&#039;m not so completely sure of my own perspective that I can&#039;t learn or perhaps correct my view upon certain specifics&#8230; and perhaps it is this language of liberation, or the anthropology of anarchism that will benefit from that further conversation&#8230;  </p>
<p>These differences of opinion could be the area&#039;s that are essentially as yet unwritten, or as yet un-co-opted by the west since I&#039;ve argued that in fact this body of knowledge has already been &quot;written&quot; by indigenous people, they&#039;ve just been forgotten or ignored by the west up to this point. </p>
<p>My recent post <a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/qcmississippimud/kvMf/~3/1ic34p3_phE/" rel="nofollow">The three features of a revolutionary program that Occupy and its descendents MUST engage</a> </p>
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		<title>By: Null Void</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Null Void]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[For whatever reason, I wish I did not write that comment. Something about it bothers me... ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For whatever reason, I wish I did not write that comment. Something about it bothers me&#8230; </p>
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		<title>By: jeremy6d</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeremy6d]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This might be the most important piece C4SS has published, at least from a spiritual point of view. My highest compliments to the author and those who chose to publish it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might be the most important piece C4SS has published, at least from a spiritual point of view. My highest compliments to the author and those who chose to publish it. </p>
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		<title>By: Null Void</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Null Void]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[badweather, 
 
I loved this piece. Being an individualist anarchist, I disagree with some details but agree with the overall thrust. I especially like the call for free credit; reminds me of both Proudhon and the infamous C.H. Douglas&#039;s &quot;Social Credit&quot;. 
 
I will freely admit to being a partisan of the &#039;masters language&#039;; largely because it doesn&#039;t have to justify the present state of affairs. One must be careful though... 
 
I do like the hunting metaphor. Indeed, no man is an island as the poet John Donne used to say. All ideas are social products; all ideas are common. We avail ourselves of the &quot;common stock&quot; of wisdom accumulated by previous generations, as Edmund Burke once said.  
 
As for whether or not the hunter &#039;owns&#039; the kill, that is clearly a matter dependent on what constitutes ownership in the tribe. As a matter of action, he/she was the one who did the kill. But, I understand what you are getting at.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>badweather, </p>
<p>I loved this piece. Being an individualist anarchist, I disagree with some details but agree with the overall thrust. I especially like the call for free credit; reminds me of both Proudhon and the infamous C.H. Douglas&#039;s &quot;Social Credit&quot;. </p>
<p>I will freely admit to being a partisan of the &#039;masters language&#039;; largely because it doesn&#039;t have to justify the present state of affairs. One must be careful though&#8230; </p>
<p>I do like the hunting metaphor. Indeed, no man is an island as the poet John Donne used to say. All ideas are social products; all ideas are common. We avail ourselves of the &quot;common stock&quot; of wisdom accumulated by previous generations, as Edmund Burke once said.  </p>
<p>As for whether or not the hunter &#039;owns&#039; the kill, that is clearly a matter dependent on what constitutes ownership in the tribe. As a matter of action, he/she was the one who did the kill. But, I understand what you are getting at.</p>
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		<title>By: badweather</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[badweather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Indigenous thought is actually pretty clear on this stuff. 
 
If a hunter goes out hunting and brings back a large kill, did they do that all by themselves? Or did the entire tribe actually contribute through endless acts (teaching them, caring for them, preventing their death, etc.), during the persons life as they grew up, along with endless ancestors who lead the way previously, etc. etc... 
 
In other words, the great hunters of our society who&#039;ve made discoveries that lead to technology that could either imprison us all or make us all free, all done perched upon the shoulders of previous thoughtful humans. this knowledge is clearly all of ours if you use indigenous philosophy to think about it but the western acceptance of the language of the masters prevents us from understanding this... 
 
So, it seems like you&#039;re suggesting that access to the resources of civilization, land, communication, etc. is a form of slavery, or that in order to have access to these things one must first admit that they are dependent upon the state? 
My recent post &lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/qcmississippimud/kvMf/~3/1ic34p3_phE/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The three features of a revolutionary program that Occupy and its descendents MUST engage&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indigenous thought is actually pretty clear on this stuff. </p>
<p>If a hunter goes out hunting and brings back a large kill, did they do that all by themselves? Or did the entire tribe actually contribute through endless acts (teaching them, caring for them, preventing their death, etc.), during the persons life as they grew up, along with endless ancestors who lead the way previously, etc. etc&#8230; </p>
<p>In other words, the great hunters of our society who&#039;ve made discoveries that lead to technology that could either imprison us all or make us all free, all done perched upon the shoulders of previous thoughtful humans. this knowledge is clearly all of ours if you use indigenous philosophy to think about it but the western acceptance of the language of the masters prevents us from understanding this&#8230; </p>
<p>So, it seems like you&#039;re suggesting that access to the resources of civilization, land, communication, etc. is a form of slavery, or that in order to have access to these things one must first admit that they are dependent upon the state?<br />
My recent post <a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/qcmississippimud/kvMf/~3/1ic34p3_phE/" rel="nofollow">The three features of a revolutionary program that Occupy and its descendents MUST engage</a> </p>
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		<title>By: badweather</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[badweather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By the mere fact of our being alive we have these &quot;rights&quot;. 
 
Aside from the concept of rights being a necessary fix for the state to work functionally for everyone instead of just those elite plutocrats, it could be that I&#8217;ve merely used the wrong word to describe the innate and legitimate claim all living beings (not just humans) have upon this world.  
 
My point here is argued from the perspective that underneath it all humans are communistic and our great claim to fame here on earth is our extremely cooperative natures. This is not at all contrary to the idea that property is theft. I&#8217;m suggesting that the world belongs to everyone and no one person can claim to own any of it. Therefore we all have a &#8220;right&#8221; to access its resources. So I think you&#8217;re objection is entirely semantic. However, just in case it is not a matter of mere semantics.... 
 
I&#8217;m not sure if this following passage taken from David Graeber&#8217;s book &#8220;Debt: The First 5000 Years&#8221; will help, but the opposite of &#8220;rights&#8221; is that you have to pay: 
 
&#8220;The best response to anyone who wants to take seriously Nietzsche&#8217;s fantasies about savage hunters chopping pieces off each other&#8217;s bodies for failure to remit are the words of an actual hunter-gatherer an Inuit from Greenland made famous in the Danish writer Peter Freuchen&#8217;s Book of the Eskimo. Freuchen tells how one day, after coming home hungry from an unsuccessful walrus-hunting expedition, he found one of the successful hunters dropping off several hundred pounds of meat. He thanked him profusely. The man objected indignantly: 
 
&#8220;Up in our country we are human!&#8221; said the hunter. &#8220;And since we are human we help each other. We don&#8217;t like to hear anybody say thanks for that. What I get today you may get tomorrow. Up here we say that by gifts one makes slaves and by whips one makes dogs.&#8221; 
 
The last line is something of an anthropological classic, and the similar statements about the refusal to calculate credits and debits can be found through the anthropological literature on egalitarian hunting societies. Rather than seeing himself as human because he could make economic calculations, the hunter insisted that being truly human meant refusing to make such calculations, refusing to measure or remember who had given what to whom, for the precise reason that doing so would inevitably create a world where we began &#8220;comparing power with power, measuring, calculating&#8221; and reducing each other to slaves or dogs through debt.&#8221; 
 
~~~~~~~~ &lt;end David Graeber quote&gt; 
 
So it is possible that I&#8217;m really just a hunter gatherer living on a farmers planet... I have internalized many of the indigenous beliefs I&#8217;ve been studying over the years and it has become difficult to communicate these ideas to people living in western society in particular since I believe these concepts aren&#8217;t so foreign in the east, for instance in India and China were rural subsistence farmers still grow most of the food those communities rely upon. 
 
Again, I don&#8217;t believe the body of knowledge (an anarchist anthropology, as suggested by David Graeber) has been created by the west, though (I believe) it absolutely does exist, within indigenous communities certainly, we have yet to formalize this knowledge in the way we always do through academia, though that is being written now by us right here and elsewhere it seems.  
My recent post &lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/qcmississippimud/kvMf/~3/1ic34p3_phE/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The three features of a revolutionary program that Occupy and its descendents MUST engage&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the mere fact of our being alive we have these &quot;rights&quot;. </p>
<p>Aside from the concept of rights being a necessary fix for the state to work functionally for everyone instead of just those elite plutocrats, it could be that I&rsquo;ve merely used the wrong word to describe the innate and legitimate claim all living beings (not just humans) have upon this world.  </p>
<p>My point here is argued from the perspective that underneath it all humans are communistic and our great claim to fame here on earth is our extremely cooperative natures. This is not at all contrary to the idea that property is theft. I&rsquo;m suggesting that the world belongs to everyone and no one person can claim to own any of it. Therefore we all have a &ldquo;right&rdquo; to access its resources. So I think you&rsquo;re objection is entirely semantic. However, just in case it is not a matter of mere semantics&#8230;. </p>
<p>I&rsquo;m not sure if this following passage taken from David Graeber&rsquo;s book &ldquo;Debt: The First 5000 Years&rdquo; will help, but the opposite of &ldquo;rights&rdquo; is that you have to pay: </p>
<p>&ldquo;The best response to anyone who wants to take seriously Nietzsche&rsquo;s fantasies about savage hunters chopping pieces off each other&rsquo;s bodies for failure to remit are the words of an actual hunter-gatherer an Inuit from Greenland made famous in the Danish writer Peter Freuchen&rsquo;s Book of the Eskimo. Freuchen tells how one day, after coming home hungry from an unsuccessful walrus-hunting expedition, he found one of the successful hunters dropping off several hundred pounds of meat. He thanked him profusely. The man objected indignantly: </p>
<p>&ldquo;Up in our country we are human!&rdquo; said the hunter. &ldquo;And since we are human we help each other. We don&rsquo;t like to hear anybody say thanks for that. What I get today you may get tomorrow. Up here we say that by gifts one makes slaves and by whips one makes dogs.&rdquo; </p>
<p>The last line is something of an anthropological classic, and the similar statements about the refusal to calculate credits and debits can be found through the anthropological literature on egalitarian hunting societies. Rather than seeing himself as human because he could make economic calculations, the hunter insisted that being truly human meant refusing to make such calculations, refusing to measure or remember who had given what to whom, for the precise reason that doing so would inevitably create a world where we began &ldquo;comparing power with power, measuring, calculating&rdquo; and reducing each other to slaves or dogs through debt.&rdquo; </p>
<p>~~~~~~~~ &lt;end David Graeber quote&gt; </p>
<p>So it is possible that I&rsquo;m really just a hunter gatherer living on a farmers planet&#8230; I have internalized many of the indigenous beliefs I&rsquo;ve been studying over the years and it has become difficult to communicate these ideas to people living in western society in particular since I believe these concepts aren&rsquo;t so foreign in the east, for instance in India and China were rural subsistence farmers still grow most of the food those communities rely upon. </p>
<p>Again, I don&rsquo;t believe the body of knowledge (an anarchist anthropology, as suggested by David Graeber) has been created by the west, though (I believe) it absolutely does exist, within indigenous communities certainly, we have yet to formalize this knowledge in the way we always do through academia, though that is being written now by us right here and elsewhere it seems.<br />
My recent post <a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/qcmississippimud/kvMf/~3/1ic34p3_phE/" rel="nofollow">The three features of a revolutionary program that Occupy and its descendents MUST engage</a> </p>
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		<title>By: geoih</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[geoih]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...and learn the language of liberation which says clearly that we all have a right to access to food, housing, medicine, education, communication, credit, and land.&quot; 
 
Slavery is freedom! What a load of crap. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;&#8230;and learn the language of liberation which says clearly that we all have a right to access to food, housing, medicine, education, communication, credit, and land.&quot; </p>
<p>Slavery is freedom! What a load of crap. </p>
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		<title>By: b-rod</title>
		<link>http://c4ss.org/content/13205/comment-page-1#comment-155350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[b-rod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 04:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://c4ss.org/?p=13205#comment-155350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with much of this and disagree with much of it as well. But what I&#039;m really curious about is how &quot;we all have a right to access to food, housing, medicine, education, communication, credit, and land.&quot;? Can someone please explain how such rights are derived? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with much of this and disagree with much of it as well. But what I&#039;m really curious about is how &quot;we all have a right to access to food, housing, medicine, education, communication, credit, and land.&quot;? Can someone please explain how such rights are derived? </p>
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